Curse

Bryant Again · Nov 07, 2007, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

1. I like UB because it gives me a chance to do areas which otherwise my character class could not do very easily.

2. I like UB because it allows elite areas to be done in much shorter spaces of time.

3. I don't like UB because my "insert item or gold thing here" is worth less because of it.

4. I don't like UB because I or someone else has worked hard for something and I don't like the idea of people doing things easier then me.

5. I love UB because it finally got my warrior friend to quit his bitching and moaning about Shards of Orr!

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

I just hope A.net balance UB and not nerf if into nothingness...

And that's probably my biggest concern right now. Balance and still keep it decently useful, not useless.

[DE] · Nov 07, 2007, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

I just hope A.net balance UB and not nerf if into nothingness...

Well the last time they nerfed PvE skills (TNTF and SoL) they did a pretty good job of keeping them usable. So I assume it will be the same for UB

angmar_nite · Nov 08, 2007, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

1. I like UB because it gives me a chance to do areas which otherwise my character class could not do very easily.

Fair enough. Or you could be creative and make your own build and work with guildies and friends. (The same thing you tell us who don't want to ursanway to do)

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

2. I like UB because it allows elite areas to be done in much shorter spaces of time.

Bad reason. They are meant to be hard. If the most EFFICIENT and effective normal builds can't do them at a certain speeds, for one skill to come along and say "fast forward" is most certainly overpowering.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

3. I don't like UB because my "insert item or gold thing here" is worth less because of it.

Others get more of what we have working less for it. Since they have more, they become richer while being less skillful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

4. I don't like UB because I or someone else has worked hard for something and I don't like the idea of people doing things easier then me.

If we worked hard why shouldn't they? What if survivor was dropped to rank 1 is 2000 exp rank 2 is 50k and rank 3 is 100k?
people doing it otherwise.

lord dragon · Nov 08, 2007, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by angmar_nite

Fair enough. Or you could be creative and make your own build and work with guildies and friends. (The same thing you tell us who don't want to ursanway to do)

Bad reason. They are meant to be hard. If the most EFFICIENT and effective normal builds can't do them at a certain speeds, for one skill to come along and say "fast forward" is most certainly overpowering.

Others get more of what we have working less for it. Since they have more, they become richer while being less skillful.

If we worked hard why shouldn't they? What if survivor was dropped to rank 1 is 2000 exp rank 2 is 50k and rank 3 is 100k?
people doing it otherwise.

I am assuming you meant played hard. The definition or work does not apply here. It is a game. As for getting it easier, I am one that has it, done it the way you said, had the feeling of acomplishments. That is over now for me. I hope the rest get what they want as easy as they can. Guess I am not nearly as selfish as some.

angmar_nite · Nov 08, 2007, 01:20 AM // 01:20

I have every right to be selfish. I WANT what I have to have more value. And I am not "over" with the elite dungeouns and missions. Therefore, while you already have all your 1337 gear, I am still working on it.

Atra Culpa · Nov 08, 2007, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by angmar_nite

Bad reason. They are meant to be hard. If the most EFFICIENT and effective normal builds can't do them at a certain speeds, for one skill to come along and say "fast forward" is most certainly overpowering.

Referring that to what was already said earlier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcsumo

Somewhere on these forums is a thread showing several people completing DoA, beating Mallyx and discussing times. I believe SMS still hold the record with 2 hrs 8 mins for a run of all 4 areas. They did this with an ingenious build idea that Racthoh came up with. Hats off to them, they are good.

Even the best bear team isn't going to beat that time.

(qft)

The thought to use UB for farming crossed my mind when i first discovered the skill playing through GWEN but i never really thought about it enough to do anything with it other than use it casually in PvE. This was before the Farming started. Since then, I have used UB for DoA areas and in some others. It's a good way for first timers and scrubs like myself to learn the areas and their features mobs etc. and i intend to move on from UB asap, simply because I want to improve my own game. That and tbh it gets boring quickly.

This isn't going to apply to everyone who plays GW though because most people want 'l33t gear' etc. Though I figure none of the people in here fit under that category.

If the general gripe here is about imbalance in PvE then complain and ask Anet to remove all PvE onlys, like the skills and consumables, instead of raging on about one skill just because it sticks out slightly more than the rest of them.

Avarre · Nov 08, 2007, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atra Culpa

If the general gripe here is about imbalance in PvE then complain and ask Anet to remove all PvE onlys, like the skills and consumables, instead of raging on about one skill just because it sticks out slightly more than the rest of them.

That is and has always been my viewpoint. I can't go around saying UB needs to be taken out while "Save Yourselves!" makes a joke of the game.

I think it's relevant, so I'll bring across one of my earlier posts here (left in the quotes because they sum up a lot of the counterarguments);

Quote:

Originally Posted by assassin shaun

/not signed

no way if u want to have the same power amount as everyone else then unlock the skills ureself and stop moaning!

Guild Wars was meant to be about skill, not time.

This is how the original idea went;

Play with your skillbar.
Area too hard.
Tweak your skillbar with other skills of equal power.
Another area too hard.
Improve as a player, playing your build better to beat things
Success!

This is how the game is slowly going instead;

Play with your skillbar.
Area too hard.
Add lolzpve skills to skillbar.
Everything dies!
...no player improvement...
Halp how2beat Chromatic Drakes, they are too hard!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

option d) remove QQers from the game and let people play the way they want to

Why don't you stop supporting the degeneration of Guild Wars into yet another generic MMO and let people play the game they wanted to play in the first place, a game of skill > time? ANet would not have shifted into a more PvE-grind mindset without the support of people who believe that work->easy victory is fun. I don't understand how you can be so hypocritical with your statement and not spontaneously combust.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Dimitri

We finally have at our disposal skill that can make counter to HM spikes of foe`s and some people want to make it disapear, i don`t understand did u become Masochist along the way, i shure the hell feel underpowered when i got spiked by bosses that make 400-550dmg even ordinary footman in HM make huge damage, and DoA is story for itself.Plus the first time some people can actually get in teams!!! And YES i`m passionate about defending UB even if i don`t actually use it (used it only during the quest in GW:EN).
Good skill that definetly shouldn`t be nerfed !!!!

Protective spirit. Look into it sometime, run more versatile skillbars, and stop relying on broken skills to win the game for you.

Why even play the game if there's no challenge and no incentive to develop as a player? Do you play it like a graphic novel? Do you like to make pve numbers get bigger?

In summary, the only way to nerf this skill (and quite a few other offender PvE skills) would be to remove them from the game and feed the person who implemented them to a large bear.

I feel it goes without saying if you use these kind of PvE skills and still lose, you should never have gotten past Thunderhead Keep. It's nice and all of Anet to give ridiculously broken skills like this to people so they can smash areas, but whatever happened to skill being important? SMS running into 3 mobs at once, going afk, and then winning because of "Save Yourselves!" is not skill. Running around with a pack of bears blowing things up and understanding the value of build structure is not skill. There is no reason to have any equip-restricted skill in the game as they are by principle not balanced to the rest of the game, and balance is the backbone of creating anything built on player skill.

Yes, this also means the out-of-balance effects to add difficulty without any thought (monster skills, zone effects) are a terrible addition to PvE and should be removed. Consumables, too, are ridiculous - although things like the candy canes I am willing to look past since they are mistake erasers rather than boosts - they won't win a map for you, but they can keep a small mistake from wasting a lot of time and causing frustration.

angmar_nite · Nov 08, 2007, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Thunderhead keep... Haha. I doubt half of these guys ever gone up against all those enemy waves 2 years ago.

DivineEnvoy · Nov 08, 2007, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Guild Wars was meant to be about skill, not time.

Why don't you stop supporting the degeneration of Guild Wars into yet another generic MMO and let people play the game they wanted to play in the first place, a game of skill > time? ANet would not have shifted into a more PvE-grind mindset without the support of people who believe that work->easy victory is fun. I don't understand how you can be so hypocritical with your statement and not spontaneously combust.

Protective spirit. Look into it sometime, run more versatile skillbars, and stop relying on broken skills to win the game for you.

Why even play the game if there's no challenge and no incentive to develop as a player? Do you play it like a graphic novel? Do you like to make pve numbers get bigger?

In summary, the only way to nerf this skill (and quite a few other offender PvE skills) would be to remove them from the game and feed the person who implemented them to a large bear.

I feel it goes without saying if you use these kind of PvE skills and still lose, you should never have gotten past Thunderhead Keep. It's nice and all of Anet to give ridiculously broken skills like this to people so they can smash areas, but whatever happened to skill being important? SMS running into 3 mobs at once, going afk, and then winning because of "Save Yourselves!" is not skill. Running around with a pack of bears blowing things up and understanding the value of build structure is not skill. There is no reason to have any equip-restricted skill in the game as they are by principle not balanced to the rest of the game, and balance is the backbone of creating anything built on player skill.

Yes, this also means the out-of-balance effects to add difficulty without any thought (monster skills, zone effects) are a terrible addition to PvE and should be removed. Consumables, too, are ridiculous - although things like the candy canes I am willing to look past since they are mistake erasers rather than boosts - they won't win a map for you, but they can keep a small mistake from wasting a lot of time and causing frustration.

I am sick of the selfishness of you people. Honestly, why in the world are you so strict about the these morals with skill matters over time? Guild Wars is basically over, you know it, I know it. So what if Anet is willing to continue to support it? You know hardly a soul will be on the server as Guild Wars 2 is out. Why can't the casual players have their moment in the sun just for this short period of time before it's all gone?

If you are so skillful with the given fundamentals, like about twenty players have said: GO PLAY PVP. Have you considered that there are players who started the game late, who do not own a certain campaign and who don't have enough time to play? I had to tell a friend of mine who started when Nightfall was released that he can't play in Hero's Acsent, because he doesn't have all the skills and the rank. Do you know how crappy his heroes's skills are? No, you don't. However, with the existence of Ursan Blessing, I can bring him the good news that he can play in Hard Mode. Sounds quite a hardship isn't it, and have you ever considered for people like that? No, you didn't, because you only want the game for yourself.

Lastly, there is no way for Anet to remove the Pve-only skills; they were part of the package of the product. Truly, this is getting annoying. I am basically repeating what I have been said in the thread for the last 10 times, because people are just not getting it. Also, back in 2004, I purchased a storm bow 15% more damage while enchanted, and requires 13 marksmenship for 100k and an ecto (it was 10k an ecto back then). A bow like this is only 10k or even elss right now, so don't complain that your "work" will be degraded with the existence of Ursan; they will be degraded sooner or later anyways. You know what? I don't care. All I care about is the experience I share with the kindreds I have who are willing to play with me. Guild Wars is only a game; it's not life, where is queer and what not, so leave it be.

reverse_oreo · Nov 08, 2007, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

Why can't the casual players have their moment in the sun just for this short period of time before it's all gone?

Ok, get this through your head. TWO MORE YEARS BEFORE GW2 COMES OUT. Short period of time? They have had 2 years to get to the point where the "elitist" Pve players are. And they have another two to get some skill and beat a hard area without using a very overpowered skill.

I didnt bother reading the rest of your post because this sentence made me "ROFLMAYO"

DivineEnvoy · Nov 08, 2007, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by reverse_oreo

Ok, get this through your head. TWO MORE YEARS BEFORE GW2 COMES OUT. Short period of time? They have had 2 years to get to the point where the "elitist" Pve players are. And they have another two to get some skill and beat a hard area without using a very overpowered skill.

I didnt bother reading the rest of your post because this sentence made me "ROFLMAYO"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me on post 289

Have you considered that there are players who started the game late, who do not own a certain campaign and who don't have enough time to play? No, you didn't, because you only want the game for yourself.

I find it very difficult to get it through my head.

Shaz · Nov 08, 2007, 04:42 AM // 04:42

Just because someone joined the game late, doesn't mean they should use overpowered skill to get through the game. Learn it like the rest of us, unless they want to stay bad. Like someone said earlier in this thread, this isn't about nerfing the skill so other can't enjoy it, it's about changing the skill so it isn't imbalanced so that the game isn't lame. Who want to play a FPS game that one shot kill? (aside from the headshot sniper gun of course

)

trobinson97 · Nov 08, 2007, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by reverse_oreo

Ok, get this through your head. TWO MORE YEARS BEFORE GW2 COMES OUT. Short period of time? They have had 2 years to get to the point where the "elitist" Pve players are. And they have another two to get some skill and beat a hard area without using a very overpowered skill.

I didnt bother reading the rest of your post because it made too much sense and there was no way I could counter it without sounding like a guy completely obsessed with hinging my own self worth on things I accomplish in a video game"ROFLMAYO"

Fixed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diven Envoy

I am basically repeating what I have been said in the thread for the last 10 times, because people are just not getting it.

Agreed. At least we know Gaile has passed the concern on. There's really no point in arguing anymore. All we can do is hope that Anet listens to the majority in this case. At this point all you have are people who'd rather flame you than come with legitimate counter points. It's all they have left.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divine Envoy

back in 2004, I purchased a storm bow 15% more damage while enchanted, and requires 13 marksmenship for 100k and an ecto (it was 10k an ecto back then). A bow like this is only 10k or even elss right now, so don't complain that your "work" will be degraded with the existence of Ursan; they will be degraded sooner or later anyways. You know what? I don't care.

100% agreed. It's all pixels.

Avarre · Nov 08, 2007, 05:05 AM // 05:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

However, with the existence of Ursan Blessing, I can bring him the good news that he can play in Hard Mode. Sounds quite a hardship isn't it, and have you ever considered for people like that? No, you didn't, because you only want the game for yourself.

You can play in Hard Mode without any PvE skills at all. Once you realize that, and gain the capability to not be tethered to specific one-dimensional broken skills, you'll be able to enjoy the game more by playing in any way you want, rather than sticking to a ridiculous cookie-cutter that doesn't allow you to run actual skills. A player would be better off learning about the game and then being able to fully experience it on their own terms, with all the diversity the game offers.

If all you care about is completing things and getting material rewards over anything else, then all I can do is pity you.

manitoba1073 · Nov 08, 2007, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Ok, I'm tired of biting my lip on this subject.

Abusing the same game mechanics will make almost any skill overpowered. The skill is not itself that is overpowered its the fact you are using 3/4 of a team or more of them using.

Other people are finally getting a chance to enjoy the areas of the game alot of us pros have enjoyed. It DOES NOT decrease any acheivement we have already. It only allows others a chance to share in it.

Finally if you guys want to prove its overpowered then PM me in game and if you can solo this area I know without dieing then you can say its overpowered.

Only a few requirements are to be meet.

1. All areas in all 3 chapters must be open.
2. No consumables of any kind.
3. only skill on your bar must be UB
4. No dieing
5. You will be solo

Now keep you guys honest on it I'll be the only other person in the group. Unless ofcourse you guys are scared of a few lvl 14-lvl 18 creatures with a couple of bosses at lvl 20.

Akuma · Nov 08, 2007, 05:30 AM // 05:30

No 'dieing'?

k, I can do that with A RELATIVELY HIGH LEVEL OF SKILL

RhanoctJocosa · Nov 08, 2007, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Ok, I'm tired of biting my lip on this subject.

Abusing the same game mechanics will make almost any skill overpowered. The skill is not itself that is overpowered its the fact you are using 3/4 of a team or more of them using.

Other people are finally getting a chance to enjoy the areas of the game alot of us pros have enjoyed. It DOES NOT decrease any acheivement we have already. It only allows others a chance to share in it.

Finally if you guys want to prove its overpowered then PM me in game and if you can solo this area I know without dieing then you can say its overpowered.

Only a few requirements are to be meet.

1. All areas in all 3 chapters must be open.
2. No consumables of any kind.
3. only skill on your bar must be UB
4. No dieing
5. You will be solo

Now keep you guys honest on it I'll be the only other person in the group. Unless ofcourse you guys are scared of a few lvl 14-lvl 18 creatures with a couple of bosses at lvl 20.

That is hardly a "test" of whether something is overpowered or not. For example, Grenth Dervishes back when NF was released couldn't solo anything but they were obviously overpowered... Maybe you should just stop posting, or something.

Crom The Pale · Nov 08, 2007, 05:37 AM // 05:37

The simple fact here is that people wish to dictate how other play the game, it has been this way since GW first started.

If you dont run the skills I want you cant be in my party....

Now people find UB overpowered only because it works with little effort. Many other skills and skill combos have greater power when used with some skill and party team work.

This is tantamount to saying if your not in a guild with experianced, active people you do not deserve to play in any elite zone.

This skill is know to almost everyone now, no matter what change is made be it small or large many people will be upset.

fallot · Nov 08, 2007, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Abusing the same game mechanics will make almost any skill overpowered. The skill is not itself that is overpowered its the fact you are using 3/4 of a team or more of them using.

In an almost exclusively team game, that fits the definition of overpowered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Only a few requirements are to be meet.

1. All areas in all 3 chapters must be open.
2. No consumables of any kind.
3. only skill on your bar must be UB
4. No dieing
5. You will be solo

How does that prove anything (except your total disconnect from reality) ?

DivineEnvoy · Nov 08, 2007, 05:45 AM // 05:45

trobinson97:
Nice fix there and thanks for the understanding. I notice the flames as well; however, I would like to finish what I have started: to protect a game I like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

You can play in Hard Mode without any PvE skills at all. Once you realize that, and gain the capability to not be tethered to specific one-dimensional broken skills, you'll be able to enjoy the game more by playing in any way you want, rather than sticking to a ridiculous cookie-cutter that doesn't allow you to run actual skills. A player would be better off learning about the game and then being able to fully experience it on their own terms, with all the diversity the game offers.

If all you care about is completing things and getting material rewards over anything else, then all I can do is pity you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me on post 289

Have you considered that there are players who started the game late, who do not own a certain campaign and who don't have enough time to play? I had to tell a friend of mine who started when Nightfall was released that he can't play in Hero's Acsent, because he doesn't have all the skills and the rank. Do you know how crappy his heroes's skills are? No, you don't.

I'm surprised that these are the lines right before what you have quote. My friend only has Nightfall and Eye of the North, and it's very difficult to construct a well-balanced monk build let alone for normal mode. It was not balanced for him in the first place, because he does not have all the campaigns. He's a university student, and he can only play once or twice a week. What should he do? Force him to buy them all? Force him to play more? So what if he wants to play Hard Mode with Ursan Blessing, so that he can actually play Hard Mode, despite his current situation? What makes you believe that you have the rights to control how others are playing the game?

I'm sorry, but all I care is that my friends are having fun. So what if completing things and getting rewards is what we considered as fun? How's that any of your business? What makes you think you have the rights of judging us?